Posts by Juan Viejo2

324

Is this new donation arrangement for real?

by nugget in

just read a post on jwsurvey about the new donation arrangement.

congregations are to pledge a monthly amount to be sent to the society to fund the building of assembly halls and kingdom halls.

congregations who already have a loan from the society will no longer have to pay back the loan but the amount pledged should not be less than the current monthly repayments to the society.

Juan Viejo2

For anyone who might still be doubting the new donation arrangement story, please be sure to read Cedars post about it on JWSurvey.org. Cedars and I both have copies of the BOE letter that outlines much of what we have been discussing, but distribution of the letter will be limited somewhat and can not be made widely available for a while. Those of you who are elders should see the letter within the next few days. Those who are not should hear the first page read in the Kingdom Halls sometime near the end of April.

As to the other details - some are included in the 3-page attachment to the BOE letter, but none of that will be shared with the rank and file, and maybe not with all elders - only those with major assignments.

So just to clear things up - the BOE letter is real The 3 page attachment is real. Changes are definitely going to take place.

What I have shared here from my insider contacts (who will forever remain anonymous for obvious reasons) includes some conjecture and suppositions, but they are based on documents and conversations with insiders deep within the Watchtower headquarters. So some of those things may turn out to be true, and some may never occur. At this point even the insiders can't be sure - much of it is based on rumors.

The one thing those of us who have been around the block with the JWs over the years can be sure of is this: Jehovah's Witnesses love to gossip. If they are in the know, they will want to share it with someone. Being in the know is seen as having stature in the congregation - that's why elderettes are great sources of inside information. I learned more about what was going on in our Kingdom Hall by riding in a car full of elders' wives than from any Watchtower or Informant bulletin. The same applies to volunteers working in Bethel and Watchtower HQ. They love to share inside knowledge with their friends and family. Even those who work clerical jobs will hear or see confidential information in their offices - and the odds are that some will share what they know with their friends. So there is always a small stream of information that gets out before the official announcements are made.

So let's enjoy what we can find out from whatever insider sources we might have. Some information will be wrong. Some will be changed before implementation. Some will be changed because we knew it first and now the WT wants to make us all look like idiots.

I personally believe that most of the higher level Watchtower managers spend a lot of time reading this forum and several other major JW discussion websites. In fact, one of my insider contacts told me that JWN was one of the sites that almost everyone at HQ visits at least once a week. I can see hits from the Watchtower's IP addresses on my websites and AAWA.co all the time - as is the case with JWSurvey.

So don't be too quick to discount occasional reports of insider informatiion. Just expect that some of it won't pan out - just like rumors and news on TV and radio and the Internet regarding political moves and entertainer gossip.

JV

324

Is this new donation arrangement for real?

by nugget in

just read a post on jwsurvey about the new donation arrangement.

congregations are to pledge a monthly amount to be sent to the society to fund the building of assembly halls and kingdom halls.

congregations who already have a loan from the society will no longer have to pay back the loan but the amount pledged should not be less than the current monthly repayments to the society.

Juan Viejo2

I just got another email from my contact:

"Just got off the phone with a very deep insider. He told me that a form of 'theocratic tithing' was being discussed, but has been tabled for now. How would it work? Very simple and quite sneaky as well. One of the elders would be assigned the duty of sitting down with each family head and go over the family tax forms for the past year - the ones actually filed with the IRS or however it is done in other countries (remember some countries don't have direct income taxes like the US.) At first this would be entirely voluntary, but to refuse might be considered "resisting Jehovah or the holy spirit" or a sign of "spirtual weakness."

"In effect, the congregation would be 'tithed' but not at the traditional 10% expected by some churches (Mormons). The Watchtower leadership has taken note that churches that do tithe are often among the richest and their membership seems to be more dedicated (Mormons, some pentecostals, Scientology). They are trying to learn from their competitors who always seem to be unbelievably wealthy in spite of their often poor members. After all, what is 'everlasting life' worth. Would rank and file JWs risk their eternal lives by not giving what they promised - after all - Jehovah knows! You can't get past the all-seeing-eyes of the holy spirit. Observed from that point of view, and understanding how much crap JWs put up with already, it's almost a sure thing that the Watchtower can pull this off and totally get away with it."

He offered more - but it would be too far fetched for most of the readers and posters of JWN. So I will stop there and comment elsewhere.

JV

324

Is this new donation arrangement for real?

by nugget in

just read a post on jwsurvey about the new donation arrangement.

congregations are to pledge a monthly amount to be sent to the society to fund the building of assembly halls and kingdom halls.

congregations who already have a loan from the society will no longer have to pay back the loan but the amount pledged should not be less than the current monthly repayments to the society.

Juan Viejo2

Tech49 - it could be that the local congregation won't have to "send in their contributions to the WT." Since the WT will be co-owners of all local accounts (where local laws allow for dual ownership), they can just reach in and transfer the money themselves. Not all states or countries allow co-ownership of bank accounts, but the local KH could set up an automatic payment arrangement for a certain minimum each month and then send additional payments if there are more funds available.

JV

324

Is this new donation arrangement for real?

by nugget in

just read a post on jwsurvey about the new donation arrangement.

congregations are to pledge a monthly amount to be sent to the society to fund the building of assembly halls and kingdom halls.

congregations who already have a loan from the society will no longer have to pay back the loan but the amount pledged should not be less than the current monthly repayments to the society.

Juan Viejo2

Quarterback - Have it your way. Check back in a year and see what happens. My contact has made it very clear that we haven't seen anything yet and changes over the next 24-48 months will make the WT look very different than what we know now.

JV

324

Is this new donation arrangement for real?

by nugget in

just read a post on jwsurvey about the new donation arrangement.

congregations are to pledge a monthly amount to be sent to the society to fund the building of assembly halls and kingdom halls.

congregations who already have a loan from the society will no longer have to pay back the loan but the amount pledged should not be less than the current monthly repayments to the society.

Juan Viejo2

More breaking news...

My very, very, very secret contact emailed me right after he saw Cedars' article on JWSurvey.org and the news post on JWReport.com about the new BOE letter. Here is what he wrote:

"Remember what I told you in our last contact? Let me repeat: ' Many of the changes will only apply to North America at first, but will likely be adapted for foreign branches in 2015 and 2016. I can assure you that there will be a lot of pissed off brothers who have dedicated their lives to serving the Watchtower. I say they'll get what they deserve for being so gullible.' and ' You know from your own experience that a lot of changes can be made right under the average JW nose and they will never take notice or give a damn. My contacts have implied that the real changes will start taking place after the next annual meeting. I would love to get tickets to that show on the 100th anniversary of 1914. This "centennial year" should be very interesting to watch and analyze.' "

"One of my contacts had mentioned that there would be major changes in how contributions would be collected. He wasn't sure exactly how it all would play out, but he told me that there would be (his exact words) 'a lot of pissed off brothers and elders. I wouldn't call it a "tithe" but a dog of any breed is still a dog. The first step will be declared monthly minimum amounts that each family head and single brother can contribute. At first they will be lenient, but if that minimum is not met at least 10 months out of 12, then the brother might be classified as 'spiritually weak' (unless there are mitigating circumstances). Sisters will not be held to account. Elders and MS could lose their appointments if they (1) don't commit enough, and -or (2) don't meet their commitments without some serious emergency."

"What is really going to upset local boards of elders is the fact that they will eventually lose all control of their own bank accounts. They will have to send copies of their bank statements to a special WT department set up for this - or add that department to the bank's report distribution list. Not only that, but they will have to share all account numbers and online passwords with WT HQ. That will allow the WT to go in around the elders and manipulate funds as they see fit. Someday an elder will go in to make a withdrawal and find out that only the bank's minimum is on deposit. Not sure when all of this will take place - and corp may back off it the local elders start making an issue of it, but it is definitely in the works."

"I would not want to be an elder right now. They are not only held to a higher standard in so many ways, now the financial hammer will be coming down on them. Not only that, but the Legal Department will likely let them swing in the wind for local pedophile issues, whether they report cases to the police or not. You might want to get the word out, especially to MSers and elders with large families and low incomes to get out now. The honor and power of being an elder won't be worth the pain and additional stress they will have to deal with."

My contact promised more. He said that he had not seen the recent BOE letter quoted by Cedars, but had heard that something along those lines would be coming out - but he figured that it would be held back until after the Memorial. In a way, it was, as the effective date does not begin until May.

I'm sure some of the active elders that visit JWN will have a lot to say about this. I look forward to their own personal feelings and experiences.

JV

38

3 days ago Apostate walks into Watchtower headquarters gets a new Bible Leaves his business card

by Watchtower-Free in

bo juel jensen from norway was visiting new york 3 days ago .

he is an apostate activist and a child abuse survivor .. this is the video.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=odluwssd_qy.

Juan Viejo2

Congratulations, Outlaw, on having your high-end audio equipment available to hear whatever you are hearing. Perhaps we are listening to different versions, but I'm not going to argue with you over this - it's not worth my time or yours. Besides, you have far more fans on JWN that I do. Congratulations. You've earned them.

In spite of your accusations, AAWA would not have intentionally placed an off-color comment on something we proudly show off to our audience and the public.

JV

38

3 days ago Apostate walks into Watchtower headquarters gets a new Bible Leaves his business card

by Watchtower-Free in

bo juel jensen from norway was visiting new york 3 days ago .

he is an apostate activist and a child abuse survivor .. this is the video.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=odluwssd_qy.

Juan Viejo2

And by the way - Ruben Ortiz was there and along for the ride and he wrote an article for AAWA.co about the experience. There are photos of many of those who participated in the trip and some additional information not mentioned in the video. I won't post a direct link, but if you think this must have been fun - it was. And the video is also there if you want to check it out for yourself.

JV

38

3 days ago Apostate walks into Watchtower headquarters gets a new Bible Leaves his business card

by Watchtower-Free in

bo juel jensen from norway was visiting new york 3 days ago .

he is an apostate activist and a child abuse survivor .. this is the video.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=odluwssd_qy.

Juan Viejo2

Guess I'm deaf in one ear and can't hear out of the other - or just dense. Probably both because I'm just a stupid old man. But it is a stretch to imagine that somehow AAWA is going to sneak subliminal messages into our videos - especially those that muddy our message. For what purpose, I wonder? We'd never considered that before, but maybe you've turned us on to something that we can use in the future.

Oh well, have fun with it and share with your friends. The point is not what may have been said or heard in passing, but what the point of the video really is. Bottom line is that it is fun, revealing, and (pardon the expression) "ballsy" for Bo Juel to just walk right in and ask for a new Bible and not try to hide who he is or the fact that he is on the board of advisors of AAWA.

He was just one of the folks from AAWA who were meeting in New England who had a great time. They met with some wonderful groups and individuals (some quite prominent and with good media connections) who are fighting cults with effective education and publicity programs.

And again, thank you for your support - such as it is.

JV

38

3 days ago Apostate walks into Watchtower headquarters gets a new Bible Leaves his business card

by Watchtower-Free in

bo juel jensen from norway was visiting new york 3 days ago .

he is an apostate activist and a child abuse survivor .. this is the video.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=odluwssd_qy.

Juan Viejo2

Outlaw -

Dick Kelly is not the kind of guy that would ever say something like that on a public video. It takes a lot of red wine to even get Richard Kelly loose enough to use a term like that.

And Gregorio Smith (you all know him, right?) filmed and edited the video - and he would never allow something like that in this type of situation either. He would have cut that word out instantly if someone had actually used it.

I did hear what you are referring to, but what he is saying is "something, something" ?"classic case of"? "redirection." But there is a lot of background and environmental noise that confuses some of the background conversation. The word "erection" does not even fit within that context since they are talking about the Silver Sword Bible and Bo immediately states that he asked for a "sister-friendly version."

They just spent several days with Steven Hassan and others of that caliber - so I'm sure they used the term "redirection" a lot in their conversations. It is even mentioned in a new article written and posted about the incident on AAWA.co:

"... the Watchtower tells Jehovah’s Witnesses to shun ex-JWs is because they know that we know what’s hiding behind their Wizard-of-Oz-like curtain."

Not quite sure why whatever AAWA does or does not do seems to make you look for our "dark side." I think if you ever had the chance to meet most of us in person you'd come away with an entirely different impression than the one you seem to have locked in to your permanent memory bank.

JV

13

"Keep Seeking First the Contribution Box" - the REAL district convention program ;)

by processor in

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the real district convention program can be downloaded only here: http://www.svhelden.info/pdf/co-pgm14-e2.pdf.

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Juan Viejo2

Too bad they didn't add "This invitation may have been delivered by a well-dressed pedophile with a brief case. If your minor child opened the door to them, your home may be marked for a 'return visit.' "

JV